The US/UK control of the left-over Nazis after WWII is now showing its fruits, with the neo-Nazis who have taken control in Ukraine, and who are being used to try to start a war with Russia. As with the intention of FDR, who died too soon, we must end the Empire's division of the world, and build a new paradigm based on a security and development architecture for all nations.
Mike Billington of EIR joined us tonight for the discussion.
Exposing the Media’s Goebbels War Propaganda: The Truth Behind The Neo-Nazis in Ukraine
Fireside Chat With Lyndon LaRouche
March 10, 2022
DENNIS SPEED: Hello, and welcome to tonight’s Fireside Chat with Lyndon LaRouche for Thursday, March 10, 2022. We have several things to talk about, but let’s start with something which will in one sense give a kind of cautionary tale to everyone listening as to how we should go about organizing in the next days.
There is something that occurred 40 years ago today. It’s a story that some of you may know, but many probably don’t. On that day 40 years ago, the eight planets and Pluto, the nine bodies of the Solar System including their moons and other satellites, were in alignment. They were all occupying the same 95º arc around the Sun. It’s a very rare occurrence; it hadn’t happened in 176 years at that point. This is called syzygy. What had happened was, this event was anticipated, it hadn’t happened for a long time. A book came out about eight years before, sometime around 1974 called The Jupiter Effect. What this book did was, it forecast that when this event happened, when this alignment was happening—and think about it this way. Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars are one side, and on the other side are Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto. Jupiter is there in the middle, and it’s the biggest planet and so forth and so on. So, the idea was, that there were going to be maximum solar winds, Earth’s rotation was going to be knocked out of line, and so on. Astronomers tried to tell people, this was not going to happen. The public didn’t buy it though, and this book sort of went around as a kind of talking point. When that day came, 40 years ago, it just passed without anything else happening. There were slightly higher tides than normal of the Moon.
The moral of the story is, of course, that people really learned their lesson, and after that there was never an ability to sell any pseudo-scientific hoax to anybody in the United States or anywhere else in the world. No, that didn’t happen. And that is exactly the point that I want to start us out with. Don’t be bamboozled by various things that are going to be asserted, and are being asserted regularly on things like late night TV. The entertainer Stephen Colbert got criticized because he made this point that gas prices had gone up as a result of the sanctions against Russia. It’s not true! Just look at March 1st and March 2nd. There were no sanctions against Russia on those days in terms of gas, and it was in that time that the Amsterdam spot market went through the roof. The prices began to rise before any announcement by Biden or other actions taken. No, what occurred was, the prices rose because speculators made the prices rise. The prices did not rise because of sanctions. In the same way, people have to remember the story a few days ago about the burning nuclear power plant and how this was some sort of crime against humanity. It turns out it wasn’t true. You have other stories that are going to come out during the fog and the thrill of war, which of course understandably sometimes people get things wrong. But we’re not talking about that; we’re talking about the fact the circumstance we’re in is a world war. It was declared by the trans-Atlantic community; it was not declared by Russia. It is true that Putin’s incursion into Ukraine created a circumstance in which many things have been said about that. But one thing that can’t be denied is that last week, a person such as the Finance Minister of France talked about the use of financial nuclear weapons against Russia.
This coming Saturday, Jacques Cheminade, the representative of Lyndon LaRouche in France for well over 40 years, will be joining us together with Harley Schlanger. Jacques put out a statement which I want to reference here in anticipation of his being on on Saturday. I would strongly advise that people be on at that time, but I wanted to say a couple of things from his statement to give you some excerpts from it. He starts out by saying:
“On March 7, the European Union started examining the membership applications of Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova, submitted following the Russian military operation against Ukraine. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has called for his country to be allowed to become a member of the EU without delay. At the same time, in an interview with ABC, he suggested that he had resigned himself to the fact that Ukraine would not join NATO….
“The time has come, in these circumstances, to take a quick political decision, considering the vital interests of France, Europe, and the Ukrainian and Russian peoples, without continuing to procrastinate, nor pretending to have the means to do what we cannot.”
He talks about the sanctions, he says, "While the halt to Russian oil and gas imports only affects 8% of American energy imports, in Western Europe they represent 40% and 30% respectively. Moreover, European industry (high-tech, digital, aeronautics, automotive, etc.) depends on titanium, palladium, and lithium produced in Russia. Our agriculture depends on Russian fertilizers. A generalized crisis would result from the physical rupture of the production and value chains with Russia.
“If Ukraine were admitted to the EU, it would be equivalent to admitting NATO forces on its territory.”
I want people to pay close attention to this to understand that when somebody talks about “financial nuclear weapons,” or financial warfare, or total economy crushing sanctions against any nation, you are talking about war. He says:
“Indeed, the EU is linked to NATO by Title V, Article 21 and 42 of the EU Treaty. Of the 27 EU member states, 21 are part of NATO’s integrated command … Since 2002, relations between the EU and NATO have intensified. Notably, through the joint declaration of July 10, 2018, the President of the European Council, the President of the European Commission, and the Secretary General of NATO ‘agree to strengthen the cooperation between the EU and NATO.’ … More specifically, the signatories encourage ‘the widest possible participation of EU Member States that are not members of the Alliance in its initiatives.’ This could not be clearer, and Russia will draw the necessary conclusions.”
So, what he does is, he describes the opposite, which is the Schiller Institute appeal. This is the one that’s in the petition that you have seen online, and many of you have signed, and which will be made public tomorrow with a lot of signatures from prominent individuals as we began to get this circulated in order to get this discussion to happen.
“[D]efining an approach to stability and security through mutual development in the world, as called for by the Schiller Institute Appeal, peace in Ukraine presupposes three things: its neutrality guaranteed by the great powers, respect for its borders, and mutual economic, social, and cultural development for all components of the country. Only in this framework, expanded to a new architecture of international security and development, can these three conditions be met in Ukraine.
“This will allow Ukraine to become an example of a policy of peace through mutual development in Europe and in the world, in the spirit of the Peace of Westphalia. The grip of ultra-nationalist and neo-Nazi forces on Ukrainian politics and part of its population can be lifted, as well as the forced presence of all foreign forces on its territory.
“This approach of ‘coincidence of opposites’ in the name of a higher principle is not easy, but, once again, it is the alternative to war and mutual and suicidal economic destruction.”
So, tonight what we want to discuss with you is the reference at least that is enclosed in Jacques’ comments on the grip of ultra-nationalism and neo-Nazi forces on Ukrainian politics. To give us that discussion, we have Mike Billington. I think everybody knows him; he does a lot of writing for EIR, he’s one of the editors of EIR. He works particularly on the Asia Desk of EIR. He’s going to tell us a little bit about the dark underside of the alliance we have made with evil in the form of the Nazi and neo-Nazi movements in Ukraine.
MICHAEL BILLINGTON: As he said, I want to discuss where this Nazi phenomena which now they’ve desperately tried to hide, but cannot be hidden in Ukraine. This didn’t come out of nowhere. It didn’t come out of 2014, it goes much further back to before World War II, and I’ll go through that a bit. But I want to just discuss a couple of the events of the last few days, just to make sure people know how wildly lying and hysterical the Western media is. That this is Nazi propaganda coming out from our governments, from our media.
Yesterday’s news most of you probably saw was that the evil, vile murderer Putin bombed a maternity hospital, having no concern for mothers and their babies, and massively killing civilians and so on. You probably saw the videos; it was a fairly serious bomb, obviously did a lot of damage to three or four major buildings with all the windows blown out and so forth. Watching MSNBC TV last night, which was of course ranting and raving about the horror and the evil of Putin and the Russians, the announcer made to me an amazing announcement. She said that in this horrid bombing, there was nobody killed, and five people injured. She then said that the building had been evacuated ahead of the bombing. She said that Zakharova, the spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry, had announced several hours before the bombing that it was going to be bombed. That the building had been evacuated, not because of the bombing, but because they moved these people out in order for the so-called nationalists—i.e., the neo-Nazis—to use this building as an operation for their military command, and we’re going to bomb it, said Zakharova. And they bombed it with precision bombs. That’s why nobody was killed; there were five people injured—who were they? Nobody knows for sure; they showed a fake picture of a pregnant woman with some blood on her face. But we already knew that in fact all the mothers had been evacuated. It’s quite amazing. And yet, nonetheless, on another channel, a typical Republican Congressman, Rep. Ben Sass from Nebraska came on, and he was ranting about Putin and the evil Russians. This is a quote, that “Putin is bombing maternity hospitals, killing women and their babies.” Nobody was killed! And yet, this sinks in; this is what people remember.
A couple of days before that was the nuclear facility which Dennis just mentioned. This is the largest nuclear facility in all of Europe, not just Ukraine. I think there are six major reactors there lined up. I was watching the news that night, too, as officer of the day doing our intelligence. As hard as it is to watch Fox or MSNBC or CNN, they’re all horrid these days. But I watched, and there it was—the Russians are shelling a nuclear plant. One of the Ukrainian officers said this could be ten times worse than Chernobyl. A nuclear holocaust. The Russians are recklessly bombing a nuclear site. God, this is horrible! The whole world could suffer from a nuclear holocaust. Then, they showed—you probably saw this—they showed these flashes that could have been shells hitting right near the nuclear power facility. Well, what actually happened? It was then revealed by the Russians, but with the IAEA (the International Atomic Energy Agency) confirming that the Russians had actually taken over this site two days earlier. There had been some people who tried to block the road from the Russians coming in, but there was no fighting. They just came in and took over the nuclear plant and made sure that it continued functioning; kept the people who were running the plant there, making sure that electricity was available to the people in the region. Then, some of the Nazi so-called nationalists took over a training building several hundred yards away from the nuclear plant, and started shooting at the Russians. So, this is the middle of the night. The Russians sent some flares into the area, and that’s what people were watching on TV as if these were shells hitting the nuclear plant. The flares basically lit the place up, and they fired back at the Nazis. The Nazis then set fire to the building and fled, and the Russians brought the fire department in to put the fire out. End of story. The plant is still functioning normally, and yet the world thinks that Putin almost set off a nuclear holocaust.
So, this is the kind of absolute lunacy which is going on. They blame Russia for shutting down the Western press there and so forth, but what we’re seeing here is the extreme of what we’ve known was the case with the media for a long time.
Now, what about these Nazis? I’m going to tell a couple of stories, one article was published already in EIR by David Shavin. But several cases here. One, it’s important to recognize who Zelenskyy is. Zelenskyy ran for President in 2019 as a peace candidate. The reason he won the election with an overwhelming 70%+ of the vote was that he said he was going to make peace with the Donbas, with the two self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk, and he was going to make peace with Russia. He got elected because the Ukrainian people want peace, they don’t want to be in a war with Russia. The vast majority want to have peace with both sides. So, he won. And he went down to the Donbas, he was at the line of demarcation there, and the Nazis came to him and said if you compromise one inch with the Russians, there’s going to be another coup. He said, oh yeah? You can’t say that to me. Then, he went to Minsk, the Minsk II Accord, I’m sure you all know, would have solved this problem. It would have kept these two self-proclaimed republics part of Ukraine. It only called for ending these anti-Russian language and anti-Russian policies that were implemented when the Nazi government was put in place there by the U.S., by the Biden-Obama administration, and Victoria Nuland. They imposed these policies, forbidding the Russian language in schools and newspapers; they shut down all the Russian TV stations and so forth. It would guarantee that those two self-proclaimed republics would remain part of Ukraine with a certain amount of limited autonomy and with changes in the regulations and rules so that this kind of Nazi policies against the Russian speakers would be reversed. It would have worked.
I’ll give you a couple of more examples of this. Zelenskyy then went to Minsk for another meeting of the Normandy 4—Russia, France, Germany, and Ukraine. They had a meeting, and while they were meeting in Minsk in Belarus, the Azov Brigade, the Nazis, mobilized 10,000 people on the Maidan. The same Maidan which in 2014 had been the scene for the violent revolt that threw out the elected government and imposed the American-chosen neo-Nazis in government. And they said, if you compromise at all on Minsk, then you’re going to die; there’s going to be a coup. Then, about a week after the election, another Nazi, a guy named Dmytro Yarosh, who had been the founder of the Right Sector, one of the leading neo-Nazi groups, a wild man, did a video which somebody recently recovered; it had been blocked out. But the video showed a wild man talking a mile a minute, frantic, mean character. He said that we agreed to the Minsk agreement only because we wanted to buy some time while we mobilized our military forces to fight the Russians. If any step toward the Minsk agreement was implemented, this would be extremely dangerous for Mr. Zelenskyy. He said Zelenskyy himself is very dangerous for us Ukrainians. He will not only lose his position if he compromises, he will lose his life. “He will be hung on a tree in the middle of Kyiv.” So, Zelenskyy capitulated. He had a gun to his head, and now he’s been made into a great big hero. And of course you hear all the time, “Well, there are no Nazis in Ukraine. Zelenskyy is Jewish.” Yes, but he has a gun to his head by the Nazis. So, this is what you’re dealing with.
Of course, I hope most of you read in EIR, we republished a few weeks ago the 2014 documentation we did even before the fall of the government, before the coup. We documented with Natalia Vitrenko, the head of the Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine there, who has been a dear friend of our for many years, who documented the total Nazi operation in place there before it even took place, just making clear that that’s what this was. Throwing out the elected government; imposing this NATO-controlled government in power. If you didn’t get a chance to read that, I encourage you to go back and do so.
But let’s look at where this all comes from. This didn’t come out of nowhere. Let’s look back to World War II with the Nazis, the German Nazi Party, and their friend Stepan Bandera in Ukraine, who was the ally of Hitler who joined his forces with the Nazis in fighting the Russians as well as rounding up Jews for the Nazis fodder at Babi Yar in Ukraine and so forth. Let’s go back to 1942. The U.S. Congress passed a law called the Trading with the Enemy Act. They moved immediately to shut down and seize of the Union Banking Corporation on Wall Street. This was the U.S. operations of Fritz Thyssen. Thyssen was Hitler’s leading sponsor, the big steel magnate who was the leading financial sponsor and then supporter of the Hitler regime. Who was on the board of directors of Union Banking Corporation? Prescott Bush, George H.W. Bush’s father, and grandfather of George W. Bush 43, and Averell Harriman, the top figure in the Democratic Party. So, these two fellows were trading with the enemy, and they had been long before. That was shut down. You’re dealing here with the pro-Nazi crowd within the United States. Then, you had the Dulles family, part of the Rockefellers’ circle. Nelson and John D. Rockefeller and their Standard Oil and banking conglomerate. You had Allen Dulles and his brother, John Foster Dulles, both of one of the top law firms on Wall Street. Allen became the head of the OSS in Switzerland, where he maintained the Nazi contacts that he’d had before the war, while he represented the OSS.
Keep in mind, about 80% of the Second World War was fought in Russia. 80% to 90% of the German tanks and airplanes and troops were all deployed against Russia. That’s where the war was fought and won. The U.S. fought a gallant war, but the vast majority of that war was fought in Russia. So, when the Russians broke the back of the Abwehr, and it was clear that they were going to sweep through Ukraine into Germany, the Nazis who had been working all along with these Anglo-American financial oligarchs, went running up to Allen Dulles. They began setting up what would be called the “rat line” or “Die Spinne”—spider in German—this network got called “Die Spinne,” and Allen Dulles, who remained in Switzerland after the war representing the OSS. John Jay McCloy, whose name you’ve probably heard, was at the time the German occupation commissioner after the war. Between them, they began picking out which of the leading Nazi military and intelligence professionals we wanted to keep on our side in order to begin what they knew was the intention to wage war on Russia, on the Soviet Union after the collaboration which Roosevelt had worked out between Roosevelt and Stalin to defeat fascism. They were already preparing for the postwar what they called Cold War, but intended to be a hot war against the Soviet Union. So, these guys pulled out in particular a couple of very high-level strategic Nazis, the Nazi chief of intelligence Reinhard Gehlen, good name to remember; the top SS colonel, Otto Skorzeny, who actually was the son-in-law of Hjalmar Schacht. This was sort of the first case of, “Yeah, they’re Nazis, but they’re our Nazis,” which you see today. Claiming that “Oh, there are no Nazis there. They’ve all become part of the Ukrainian Army”; i.e., there are Nazis. In terms of Skorzeny being the son-in-law of Hjalmar Schacht, most of you know the story, but it’s worth repeating. Schacht was the actual architect of the Nazi Holocaust. He’s the one who planned the economy; took over economic policy for the Finance Ministry and the central banks; implemented the slave labor policies; diverted the nation’s credit into the massive military build-up; and so on. Lyn has always identified the fact that it was the Schachtian economics which was the core driving force of the fascist Nazi regime. Some of you know that in 1971, when Nixon pulled the dollar off of gold, and Lyn identified at that time that this was the beginning of the end of the American System. That if it wasn’t reversed, the takeover of the Hamiltonian American System of economics would be replaced by the British system of free markets, bankers with unlimited no-government regulation, having control over the direction of credit. This would lead to a depression, to hyperinflation, to pandemics, to wars, and eventually a big war. So, this was all 1971. At that time, Lyn, who warned that this Nixon policy and the phase 1, 2, 3 of vicious austerity that was part of that policy, was Schachtian economics. We got one of the leading Keynesian economists, Abba Lerner, to agree to a debate with Lyn at Queens College. There was this very famous debate in December of 1971. Lyn went through that what was being implemented under the Nixon administration with its hordes of people like Abba Lerner, was Nazi Schachtian economics. To the point where finally, Lerner was cornered, and he said, look if the Russians had done what Hjalmar Schacht wanted, then Hitler would not have been necessary. That was it. Everybody there, and subsequently, recognized that LaRouche had crushed this guy; got him to basically admit to being a fascist economist. The New York Times and others quickly started putting out editorials saying never should anyone debate LaRouche; his name should never be mentioned without calling him an extremist, Nazi, Communist, or some horrible name. But that was actually the point at which LaRouche had established himself as a truth-teller in the midst of all the lies.
So, I won’t go through the details of what happened with Die Spinne, but just in sort of an outline, you had Nelson Rockefeller at the time was the official Inter-American Affairs representative for the United States. Many of these Nazis went into South America—Argentina, other places. The police forces all over South America ended up holding these leading Nazis in their operations. The Lebanese Falange came out of these Nazi networks; there was a civil war in Lebanon with the Nazi crowd. Also in Spain, these Falange forces were active. The secret army in Algeria, which tried to kill de Gaulle several times was part of these Die Spinne networks from the old Nazis. The Cuban Bay of Pigs operation, the gusanos that were set up by the Dulles family and so forth, included some of these networks that had been part of this neo-Nazi operation. And of course, these are the people involved in the assassination of JFK. So, this had a long history. They were involved in one of the first regime-change operations in Guatemala in 1954, and I could go on.
When Eisenhower came in, he made the mistake of appointing John Foster Dulles as the Secretary of State; Allen Dulles was head of the CIA. They began something they called the “policy of boldness” or the “spiritual crusade for liberation of the captive nations of Eastern Europe.” Captive nations became the phrase. They meant the countries that had been made part of the Soviet Union after World War II; the Baltic countries and Poland and Romania and Hungary and so forth. These were the captive nations. This meant that these were the old Nazi networks that worked with Hitler against the Russians, and who then became the opposition to the Soviet domination of their countries. You could argue that these countries had a right to their freedom from the Soviet Union, but the intent here was to maintain these Nazi networks for an eventual campaign against Russia.
At the same time, there was the Congress for Cultural Freedom. This was after a few years, exposed as a CIA operation. Basically the CIA set up a cultural organization for artists and writers and musicians. The idea was that the Soviets had sort of claimed Classical culture as being part of their commitment, and we had to show that Western culture was superior by being innovative. So, what did you get? You got modern art, modern music; this ugliness that was portrayed as the artistic culture which eventually degenerated into the pop music, the Hollywood degeneracy, etc. In other words, total license; libertarian art with no core, no commitment to the idea of uplifting the minds of the audience with this art, but rather just so-called innovation. This was Irving Kristol and people like that who became the core of what became the neo-conservative movement. So, all of this was part of sustaining the Nazi movement.
Our petition—you’ve hopefully all seen and signed and circulated the petition—which says that if we’re going to solve this Ukrainian crisis, it can’t be solved within Ukraine, because it’s not about Ukraine. This is a war which was forced by the Anglo-Americans; for what reason? Because they wanted to have a war with Russia and Ukraine? No, they made it clear from the beginning they had no intention of sending troops into Ukraine. We’ll send them a bunch of arms and weapons and so forth, but we’re not going to fight. Why? Because that wasn’t the intent. The intent was to destroy the Russian economy and eventually the Chinese economy. Why? Because the Western financial system has finally gone over the edge; it’s careening into a hyperinflationary collapse. They know they can’t stop it, and they are not going to allow this phenomenal cooperation between China and Russia which was announced on February 4th, the first day of the Olympics, when they issued this joint communiqué. It sounded very much like the Schiller Institute; it said, look there is a new era of peaceful development. There is no longer the unipolar world dominated by one superpower. We now have another option, and in fact, we offer ourselves to the entire world, joined together around a new era of peace through development. The Belt and Road development policies for the developing sector to bring countries out of poverty the way China brought itself out of poverty through infrastructure and development and education and health. This cannot be allowed; this is why they hate Russia and China. They’re threatening to take the cheap labor and cheap raw materials in the Third World away from them, and to pose some opposition to the unipolar end of history, single superpower dream and fanaticism of the British Empire.
So, the petition makes it clear. We’re not going to solve this problem within Ukraine; we have to solve it on a global scale. As Lavrov said the other day, “This is not a war over Ukraine. This is a war over the direction of the human race.” That’s what it’s about. In fact, it’s one of those moments where, if we don’t have a Peace of Westphalia, which brings all the world’s nations together—emphatically Russia, China, and the United States—and puts this bankrupt Western financial system through bankruptcy reorganization and launches a collaborative effort the Belt and Road principle of developing nations around the world; if we don’t do that, like the Peace of Westphalia did to end the 150 years of religious warfare in Europe, recognizing that there would be nothing left if they didn’t come to some kind of resolution. Now, in the nuclear age, there really will be nothing left if we don’t come to a resolution. So, therefore, we have to come to that kind of resolution that represents the idea of the sovereign nation-states based on the principle that each sovereign nation-state represents the interests of the others. That there be a fundamental right to development as well as to a security architecture. This is what happened with Cusa and his Council of Florence in 1439; that’s what helped build the Renaissance. That was the Peace of Westphalia did in 1648.
So, can we do it? Well, you’ll often hear, “Oh well, too late now. The U.S. is gone. Our leaders are sick, and there’s no chance in Hell you’re going to get this done.” Well, Helga has been very clear. When she talks privately with people, or when she speaks at events. She says, of course people are scared, and they become pessimistic and they think there is no hope. But there have been Dark Ages in the past, and the only way we got out of those Dark Ages was when certain creative geniuses said, "Here’s what can and must be done, not to fix this little problem over hear and that little problem over there, but to solve the whole thing. To address the actual common aims of mankind as a whole. By posing that issue, you therefore give people a sense that there is a solution; we don’t have to just sit back and wait for the nuclear holocaust or some equivalent disaster for mankind. There’s a basis on which, if people act as human beings, if they act with a sense that they actually represent mankind as a whole and that that creative power granted by God’s creation which distinguishes us from the beasts, makes it possible for us to actually have eternity for mankind. Not for individuals, but by acting as human beings, we can create the circumstances in which we can maintain humanity and not see some sort of nuclear or other holocaust destroy this tremendous experiment in creativity called the human race.
So, this is what we, as a small organization, which I’m sure you’ve all noticed, all of a sudden people are aware that everything is going to Hell, and therefore they’re looking around for people who have told the truth about the danger, but also posed solutions. That’s why there is this burst of reactions; not enough yet, but it’s beginning in nations around the world, and individuals within the U.S. and Europe. It’s a situation where we, as the organizers of this fight based on Lyn’s genius, have to have a sense of the world historic nature of each and every one of us in bringing this idea forward to everyone we know, but by extension, to the whole human race. This is one of those great moments in history which could go wrong; we could have a nuclear war tomorrow. But it’s also of one of the rare moments where you can get the human race to break out of their dream-state and to begin to think like human beings and use that creative power that really defines them as human beings. This is where we are; I’ll leave it at that.